Dale's Typhoon Thread #2

Re: Dale's Typhoon Thread #2

Postby Dale » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:28 pm

Wing is all back together, (i.e. ready to fly) looking much the same as originally, and is 110g lighter than original.
Or as someone said to me, that's two whole servos taken out!
Fuse is definately getting the same treatment, however and unfortunately it's now packed away. Have a house (and Island) move in next few weeks, so won't get back to this until next year sometime. So very unlikely to fly before late summer at earliest. My personal goal is to have it flying at Forsyth 2014. Until then...
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Re: Dale's Typhoon Thread #2

Postby Dale » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:08 pm

It's back!

I was waiting for some epoxy to cure on the P-40, and i looked over at the Typhoon, sitting under its covers and packed away where it had been for 6 months.
One thing led to another, and before I knew it, i had made a new rudder.
The plan called for a single sheet rudder, 12mm i recall, but even when i built it, i was thinking about weight, so i instead built it from laminated sheet, with lightening holes cut on inner laminations. The came out at (just measured it now) 39 grams. (including glass and paint.)
The new one, which is a built up classic style with rib halves each side of a centre sheet, and covered with Solartex, is 24g unpainted. Let me reiterate there was nothing wrong with the old one, i'm just doing anything i can to get down that 500g+ of lead i was looking at needing up front to get this thing to fly. As an example, due to the Typhoons extremely short nose, (allowing for 5g of paint on the rudder) this 10g weight saving translates to circa 68g of lead removed from the firewall. I know i will require lead, but hoping to have as little as possible, and furthermore to allow for this dead weight by saving excess weight elsewhere. Think i'll be happy if this thing flies at 4.5kg.

So the next day, again i found myself tinkering with the Typhoon again. Something that was pretty simple was reconfiguring the insides. I had made a ply tray, which carried the elevator and rudder servos, and the Rx. This was aft of the CG. However, it wouldn't take much work to move these items to the front side.
The only issue here is that the front side already has something in it. Originally i planned on 6S, so had made a battery mount inside here. This consisted of a "ramp" between the rear of the firewall and the upper stringers, of ply and PVA'd into place. So even though it was since unneeded, (due to getting 5S in the cowl), i left it in place. (too difficult to unglue, and it helps hold the firewall to the plane, as there is 2kW on the other side of that firewall. So this is now going to have a pair of servos and a rx mounted to it. This is to the right of the pic, and to the left can be seen the original hardware mounting plate, now with a large rectangular cutout in it. Small stuff, but again it gets the 85g of weight of the servos from behind to the front of the cg.

I then removed all the hardware and radio items from the fuse, weighed it, then started removing the paint. I began with the drown it in acetone trick, but it was 5° outside, and i very quickly got very cold and sore hands, so needed another plan. Google reported that "Easy Off" oven cleaner was the trick, so i raided the cleaning cupboard and got busy making a mess. It certainly did remove it, one coat at a time. A few hours later, and 95% of the paint was gone, and no cold sore hands and consumed $5 of oven cleaner, instead of $20 of acetone.
After a good clean and letting it dry, i touched it up with the sandpaper to get the odd bit i missed, and then got on the scales again. It seems i had taken 95g of paint (and the old markings) off.
Am now in the process of filling the weave/fairing again, so i can be ready to paint on the next fine warm day. (He says from winter in Central Otago...)
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Re: Dale's Typhoon Thread #2

Postby Dale » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:04 pm

Fuse all filled, sanded and primed. To do this, I smeared a coat of filler on (red in previous pic), sanded it off, then sprayed on a good coat of spray putty. Buying it by the aerosol can is too expensive, I recently picked up a 1ltire can of 1K Primer Filler from Trademe, mixed with some thinners and put it in my spray gun. Squirted it on easy as and life's a peach. The result looked like this: (Yes it's in the kitchen!)
I then reapplied the pinstripe panel lines (just put 3mm pinstripe tape on). I used the last of my leftovers from previous jobs, which was some cheapo stuff from Repco for about $10 for a 10m roll), and also grabbed some more professional stuff from the local auto refinisher, which it turns out I am not as happy with.
Then starting squirting paint on it. This was a bit of a hit-and-miss affair, as the paint shouldn't be applied below about 18°, and i live where it snows. And it's about the shortest day. So what i did was have the plane, the paint, and everything inside the house, ready to go, all nice and warm. (Roaring fire nearby!).
I then opened the door, and sprayed it quick as i could right outside the door, then bringing it back inside to cure, and hoping the paint never noticed the outside temps for the minute or so.
Seems to have worked ok. Ok, finish isn't perfect, (or as good as the first time), but i'm happy with it. Damn it this thing is going to fly, and a perfect paint job isn't required for this! Unfortuntely masking tape pulled off the paint of the professional pinstripe tape, which can be seen in the pic as the bright green patches. Easy to touch them up later though. At the time of posting, have done the grey and green camo, and the light grey underside. Only paint left is the black&white invasion stripes, and the rear fuse band. WIll possibly brush all these, to minimise the amount of masking required.
I have been checking the weight, and it's waaay down on previous.
Also painted the new rudder of course!

Thinking ahead to reasembly, i realised that i can get the motor nearly an inch further forward than it "currently" is. Working on this now, will detail later.
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Re: Dale's Typhoon Thread #2

Postby Dale » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:39 pm

I may have skipped a step or two, but:


(and yes, i take pictures of models all over the house!)

Have been trying to get this thing finished for Forsyth this year. I had to move house again (got a much bigger modelling shed at this one!) and haven't had much modelling time lately. However, a stolen couple of hours here and there got things pretty much back to where they were.
Ended up having to pretty much repaint the rear fuse after the previous post, as when i masked up for the D-Day stripes, it pulled off all the underlying paint. I was a bit dark about that for a couple of days, but back onto the horse and just had to fix it.
All and all, the paint is nowhere near as good as the first time, all due to me, between rushing and painting when it was really too cold. I commandeered a spare room in the new house and set it up as a spray booth, with the heater on, and painted inside in the evenings after work. The things we do... Didn't repaint the cowl, cannon or gear doors.

I had previously mounted the prop by a friction prop adaptor on the shaft (i.e. like 90% of electric motors), but realised if i tracked down a bolt on prop adaptor, turned the motor through 180° it would centre the motor about 20mm further forward, while keeping it in the same cowl, so i did exactly that.

CG is now approx 25mm aft of where it needs to be, but i have not yet starting working out the finer details of what we need to do with this. It is also missing some items yet, not least of all being new rudder and elevator pushrods. Current AUW is 4285g.

One other change is i replaced the ESC. I took advantage of Watts Up Hobbies "relocation sale" and grabbed a 100A Castle Creations, which is in a different league to any other ESC ive owned. I did this, mostly to give me piece of mind, as i just didn't feel right with the 80A Turnigy. (i.e. Hobbyking). The fact that the CC has a massive heatsink attached as opposed to just being wrapped in shrink tube makes me feel better already.
Image vs Image
(Pics from CC's and Hobbyking websites).
Got some freebies with it, a arming plug and a usb programmer. I can see the value in this product, and understand why you guys that fly the high powered electrics like this stuff.

Am not using the ESC's built-in BEC, using a separate CC 10A BEC. As i have a 2S and a 3S batt, the external BEC is run from the 2S side only.

Obviously also had some new markings made up. Vincent Holdings in Alexandra, as they did with my Harvard, the roundels are printed, and the lettering vinyl cut. They actually made me about 4 sets of everything, so i have several rebuilds worth! Also threw in the proofs as well, so i scored a heap of markings.



And perhaps on a final note for today, am looking at having the exhausts 3D printed.

Cheers for looking in, hopefully a maiden is in the near future and then we can put this one to bed!
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Re: Dale's Typhoon Thread #2

Postby compy260 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:36 am

Hey Dale,

Just found this.

http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/for ... ?TID=20321

About half way down the page, Typhoon exhaust stacks - Solid cast from resin and radiator. Are these the right size for you?
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Re: Dale's Typhoon Thread #2

Postby Dale » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:03 pm

Good spot! I'm 1/8"scale, so these are "too big" but i'm gonna send him an email and ask for the size. It might suit my "cartoon scale" look if they are only appear slightly oversized. I believe that models look better with details being oversized when compared with undersized.
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Re: Dale's Typhoon Thread #2

Postby Dale » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:29 pm

Guess what?


Got everything together over the last week, some of which i will detail in another post.

Isn't "finished", but is complete enough to see if flight was possible. Definitely ended up with considerable ballast up front, but it was what was required. I don't have weights (haven't actually weighed it definitively at time of writing), but she tips the scales on the far side of 5kg. I know this because my scales max out at 5.1kg, and they were maxed out with her on it!

The plan calls for cg at 90-100mm, sorry i have no idea what % of MAC that equates to, but Tony Nijhuis is known for being conservative with it. Several sources said go aft, so i copied someone else and used 102mm as my number. (this is with gear up, the gear moves forward quite a bit when down, taking the cg further forward during takeoff/landing.)

Elevator and rudder pushrods were the other thing i needed, i used a trick i have used before, which is the bulk of the pushrod is balsa, with carbon tow glued along it, makes them pretty stiff and light. Music wire bound to the ends for fitting of connectors. I've got ball links on the servos, and swivel ball links at the control horn. I'm not quite happy with them, so am going to replace it all in the near future, probably with carbon rod and swivel links at both ends for a real positive linkage.

So i took her to the club this morning, "just in case". Had a taxi around, and spent some time setting up radio. Interesting taxiing with the castering tailwheel. (there is no rudder/servo-tailwheel link), but control is pretty positive with full rudder though, better than some other taildraggers i've had. It was dead calm though, might be more of a handful with some crosswind.

Topped up the batts, and gave it a go. Slowly opened throttle to smoothly accelerate, (and not nose over), and she gained speed, and gently lifted herself off after perhaps 30-35m.
I had read the gear+doors add quite a bit of drag, so i made the call to pull it up quickly, and she lept away, and felt quite different with it up. Was frantically banging in a heap of aileron and elevator trim, and the cloud ceiling was about 300ft, so it was a bit of a challenge, between getting it trimmed and hitting the bottom of the cloud, but got her feeling a bit better. A couple of passes, then decided to bring her in, as the batt runtime was an unknown quantity. Big curved "carrier" approach, dropped the gear on the base leg, and pretty much let her bring herself in and settled in very smoothly, if quite fast. Once i had that trimming done, she felt quite solid and smooth, right to the touchdown.
Whole flight less than 1:30. But knees knocking for a lot longer!

about 1050mAh back into the batts, so i'm gonna set the timer for 3 min for a while and see how she goes.
Came home and connected it to the wattmeter, on fresh batts we pulled 56A @ 19V for 1025W, on an APC style 14x7.

Still have a some trimming, and a lot of learning to do, but the hardest part is done! Should fly it again later this week, and if all goes well, she'll be at Forsyth.
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Re: Dale's Typhoon Thread #2

Postby Dale » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:52 am

Thought it was about time for an update.
To get it to balance, puchased a Great Planes Precision Balancer, which worked a treat. Don't know why i didn't do it years ago, have been stumbling around with other methods previously. As mentioned, i knew where i wanted the CG, i just had to get it there.
I tracked down a 4 bolt aluminium prop driver to suit, reversed the motor on the mount, (bringing the motor some 20mm further forward), then fitted the prop driver.
I then called on the services of a local engineer, who was very helpful and enthusiastic (Nigel at Highlands Engineering at Lowburn). We started by making a 6mm mild steel 4" spinner backplate. This comes in at a hearty 329g. It has the added bonuses of making for a rock solid spinner mounting, the whole thing makes for a very smooth rotating mass, and similarly it also appears to add some form of flywheel effect, in that it the motor takes a (very small) amount of time to speed up and moreso slow down, which is kinda cool. To fasten it, i attach the prop driver with two bolts only, then the spinner backplate has two bolts which go right through the prop driver hub an into the motor, making the whole thing very firmly attached, and the backplate not being reliant on compression from the prop nut.

However, this wasn't enough weight forward. I then started considering a large steel prop nut inside the spinner, but Nigel talked me out of it, as he was concerned about that much rotating weight suppported on by the 8mm aluminum prop driver shaft. He suggested to me to look at remaking the cannon out of steel, as quite obviously these are well forward of things.
Looking back, i think Alex Hewson who made the original ones had suggested it, i should have taken him up on it then!
Anyway, it didn't take Nigel long to make up two cannon, in the same size and shape as the original wooden ones, even to attach with the original nylon threaded bolt. These are on the inboard locations. (Can be seen in the previous post in painted only in black primer). At around 175g each, this resulted in being very close to our CG, and i finished up with 60g of lead on the firewall, giving me something to play with. (hopefully this can come off as i get more familiar with flying it - still have exhausts to go on yet too which may negate some of this).

So this model has flown with a not inconsiderable amount of mild steel onboard:

The day before heading to Forsyth (awesome event BTW!) i took it out for another two flights. 3 min timer on the radio, only took about 2000mAh out.
Both flights felt real good, nice and solid in the air, and looked bloody awesome! (Camera next time hopefully)

Unfortunately, landing approach on the second flight i came in a little two slow, and upon realising this, pushed open the throttle. There may have been a contributing torque factor from the flywheel, maybe i was just too late with the throttle, but the end result was i dropped it in right on the end of the strip from about 1m high. The cause was simply pilot error being too low and slow. Lesson learned!

No major damage, scuffed up the cowl, wingtip etc. Pleased to note one of the cannon nylon bolts broke clean off as planned without extra damage! Also broke a retract trunion, and bent the UC legs, which i think the UC must have taken the brunt of the impact.
That put paid to it going to Forsyth unfortunately.

Has been back on the bench, the damages all repaired. Since it is back on the bench, i'm using the opportunity to finish it properly (it's so close!), and rework a couple of areas that perhaps weren't so good.

Can't wait to fly it again, and soon!
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Re: Dale's Typhoon Thread #2

Postby Dale » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:29 pm

One of the areas i have reworked is the wing joiners.
The original plan is for a single piece wing, as the span is only 62". However, i wanted to modify it so the fuse and wing centre section can remain attached, and thus on the U/C, making it easier to transport and store. So the outer wing panels seperate at the dihedral break. I made alimunium joiners, and replaced the lower spar with a hardwood and ply box section. A couple of carbon dowels on each joined prevented any rotation. To actually attach the sections together, other than the sliding fit, was some rubber bands from the centre section to a hook in the end of the outer.

However, i wasn't happy with this setup, mostly the lack of positive securing with the rubber bands. After landing i found that the outer wing had slid out very slightly on the spar joiner, making me nervous as to how far could it go. There will be no knife-edging this thing to the ground in event of losing a wing panel! But to change anything would seem to require major surgery, i.e. to make new panels. I could of course have just glued it all together, but that would defeat the purpose of all the work i had done to make it 3 piece.

So i made new spar joiners and then painfully drilled and tapped them on edge. The joiner is 3mm thick. The tap size is 3mm. Making for a difficult endeavour. This enabled a cap screw into it, to lock the joiner in the slot.


Old spar joiner lower, new one on top. Note the 3mm cap screw on the end.
(More than one person has commented about the old spar joiner's hole at the bend in the centre, i.e. weak spot. My argument was that this indeed may be a weak spot, but if this breaks, the wooden wing structure around it must have already been broken, so what difference did it matter? As these are now consigned to the rubbish bin, no problem any more).


New joiner in place in the outer wing panel. The cap screw can be seen in the black invasion stripe. Very solid now, much more secure, and perhaps most importantly, more confidence inspiring than the previous setup.

Am also replacing the elevator and rudder pushrods, they were not quite stiff enough. this time I'm going for 5mm carbon tube, secured at both ends with Dubro Swivel ball links, my new favourite pushrod attachement method. They bolt on securely, allow for heaps of (mis)aligment with no slop. Just gotta finish these, then it's back together.
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Re: Dale's Typhoon Thread #2

Postby Dale » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:18 pm

(I had covered this topic previously (on the original forum) but I wanted it to remain, so I have rewritten it for here.)

The colour scheme I have chosen is based on an aircraft flown by a New Zealander in an RAF Squadron, Eric Kingsley Necklen of 197 Sqn. I chose this as I had some contact with a relation of Eric’s, and this came up in conversation one day when I commented that I was building a Typhoon, and was at the time hunting for a colour scheme that was NZ related, but something perhaps other than the more commonly seen 486 Sqn markings.

Many guesses and artistic licences have been taken as to the colour scheme, as I haven’t seen a photograph of the specific aircraft, and the Squadron, as was the Typhoon itself, all but consigned to history at the end of the War.

I was very recently contacted but another relation of Erics, who had spotted posts about this topic on another forum. He provided me with the attached pic, which shows Eric with another of 197 Sqn’s machines.


(note the aircraft code letter appears to be repeated near the cockpit, i haven't decided if i will add this to mine)

About the man himself: (A quick google on found the following)
From Errol Martyn’s 'For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume Two: Fates 1943-1998)':
Tue 21 Nov 1944
Interdiction over the Amersfoort area, Netherlands
197 Squadron, RAF (B70 [Deurne], Belgium - 146 Wing, 84 Group)
Typhoon IB MN752/D - took off at 1355 with three others, but 15 minutes later, after climbing some distance in cloud, the four were instructed to descend. Almost immediately the order was issued the leader saw a flash in the cloud, MN752 having collided with Typhoon MN881. They fell near Fort de Schoten, a few kilometres NE of Antwerp, where the two pilots are buried. It was thought probable that MN881, cutting in front, had been rammed in the tail by MN752.
Pilot: NZ40422 Flt Lt Eric Kingsley NECKLEN, RNZAF - Age 24. 1053hrs (about 100 on Typhoon) 71st op.

And from the same author’s 'For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume Three: Biographies and Appendices)':
NECKLEN, Flight Lieutenant Eric Kingsley.
NZ40422 (prev A40422); b Wanganui 17 Jan 20; Te Kuiti DHS; grocer - Farmers Trading Co, Hamilton. NZ Army/TF (16th Waikato Regt) 1938 for 2 yrs; RNZAF Levin/RTS as Aircrafthand (GD) 26 Jan 40, Ohakea 23 Feb 40 [80 days hosp/sick leave between 25 Sep 40 & 6 Oct 41], ITW 30 Nov 41, remust as Airman Pilot u/t 1 Dec 41, 4EFTS 11 Jan 42, emb for Canada 8 Mar 42, att RCAF 2 Apr 42, 5 M Depôt 3 Apr 42, 9SFTS 12 Apr 42 [hosp 20 Apr-12 May], 8SFTS 4 Jul 42, Pilots Badge & Sgt/Comm 14 Aug 42, 1FIS 19 Sep 42, 31 SFTS RAF (Harvard) as FI 24 Oct 42, 1OTU (Hurricane) 15 Jul 43, 1 Y Depôt 29 Oct 43, att RAF & train to New York for emb for UK 1 Nov 43, 12PD&RC 10 Nov 43, 59OTU (Hurricane) 28 Dec 43, 57OTU (Spitfire) 21 Jan 44, 3TEU (Typhoon) 2 May 44, 84GSU (Typhoon) 4 Jul 44, 197 Sqn (Typhoon - 71 ops) 9 Jul 44, kao 21 Nov 44. Schoonselhof Cemetery - I.A.10, Antwerp, Belgium. Son of Charles & Mabel Victoria Necklen (née Parmenter), Frankton Junction; stepson of Caroline Mary Helen Necklen, Frankton Junction.

Plenty of “heroes” have books and movies made of them, but there are plenty of others who made the ultimate sacrifice for our freedoms, and are in danger of being forgotten to history. This is my effort to remember one these other heroes, who died far from his home and loved ones.
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